Attorneys argue whether video interviews with Tyler Robinson’s roommate can be shown in court

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The weeklong preliminary hearing for the man accused of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk continues Thursday.

Prosecutors are aiming to show that they have enough evidence against Tyler Robinson to proceed to a trial, a bar experts say they are likely to pass.

What to know:

• The 23-year-old Robinson is charged with aggravated murder in the Sept. 10 assassination of Kirk on the Utah Valley University campus, for which prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. Robinson’s attorneys have not commented on his guilt or innocence.
• Robinson’s lawyers are expected to keep questioning the reliability of DNA testing that prosecutors said links the defendant to the suspected murder weapon, a rifle found wrapped inside a towel.
• On Tuesday, prosecutors showed previously unseen campus surveillance footage that investigators testified showed Robinson on the Utah Valley University campus talking with Kirk’s staff, and later returning in different clothes to shoot the conservative activist from a rooftop.

Here’s everything that happened on Wednesday, July 8:

Kirk family lawyer says video interview, other evidence should be public

A lawyer for Charlie Kirk’s family says they want video footage and other evidence to be made public in the criminal case against the man charged with aggravated murder in Kirk’s shooting death.

Kirk family lawyer Jeffrey Neiman spoke Wednesday during a preliminary hearing for defendant Tyler Robinson. Neiman said that “to not be open and let the world see what happened will create doubt and distrust in the judicial system.”

A defence lawyer sought to prevent the publication in open court of an interview with defendant Tyler Robinson’s roommate and romantic partner, Lance Twiggs. Robinson’s lawyer said prosecutors would attempt to portray Twiggs’ statements as a confession by Robinson, hurting the defendant’s right to a fair trial.

This week’s hearing will determine if the case will proceed to trial.

Hearing ended for the day, set to resume Thursday

State District Judge Tony Graf ended the preliminary hearing Wednesday slightly ahead of the usual time of 5 p.m. It resumes Thursday morning.

Attorneys argue over whether Robinson’s texts should be shown in court

Defence attorney Richard Novak says allowing the video of Lance Twiggs’ interview to be shown publicly will violate Robinson’s right to a fair trial, in part because prosecutors will characterize the video as a “confession,” based on what Twiggs claims Robinson told him.

The same is true of text messages, discord chats or other communications that the prosecutors say Robinson made, Novak says.

The defence team does not characterize those as confessions, but as communications by an individual, according to Novak.

The judge has not yet said whether the video of Robinson’s roommate or other pieces of evidence will be published — or shown — in court.

Investigator describes interviews with Robinson’s roommate

Tyler Robinson’s roommate and romantic partner Lance Twiggs was interviewed twice as part of the investigation, State Bureau of Investigation Agent Brian Davis says.

Two FBI agents were on hand for the first interview on Sept. 12, Davis says. The second interview was April 20, Davis said, and he was one of several law enforcement agents and prosecutors present.

Deputy Utah County Attorney Lauren Hunt appears to be laying a foundation to try to get a recording of Twiggs’ statements introduced as evidence.

Investigator says roommate was given ‘use immunity’ for statements

State Bureau of Investigation Agent Brian Davis says Lance Twiggs was given “use immunity” for Twiggs’ statements, which means a prosecutor has agreed not to use those statements against someone in a criminal case.

Twiggs’ April 20 interview was conducted and recorded in lieu of bringing Tyler Robinson’s roommate and romantic partner to the preliminary hearing as a witness, Davis says.

Deputy Utah County Attorney Lauren Hunt says she expects the defence team to object to the introduction of the videotaped statements in court, so she’s telling the judge why she thinks the evidence should be allowed.

Hunt also says the defence team proposed multiple redactions at the last minute. But she says redacting a video is complicated and that the defence team should have requested redactions earlier if it wanted them.

Media attorney argues to keep the courtroom open and the video public

David Reymann, an attorney representing the news media, is urging State District Judge Tony Graf to allow the video to be seen by the public if it is admitted.

He’s also arguing against proposals that the courtroom be closed so that the prosecution and defence attorneys can argue over which portions of the video should be admitted.

Reymann says there are ways to ensure fair trials even with extensive media coverage. He says the court should remain open to the public, along with the exhibits the judge is considering in this case.

Defence attorney says the video of the roommate’s interview isn’t admissible

Defence attorney Robert Novak has taken issue with the prosecution’s characterization of his opposition to the roommate’s videotaped interview as a last-minute “surprise.”

“There’s no surprise here,” Novak says. “There’s been all of Monday, all of Tuesday evening, this morning,” Novak says.

He said the defence team created a 20-page transcript of the interview, along with a proposed redacted transcript, so that just admissible portions of the interview could be highlighted for the court.

Novak says Deputy Utah County Attorney Ryan McBride conducted the interview with Lance Twiggs in a very leading manner and such leading questions would never be allowed in a court setting.

Novak also says portions of the video aren’t relevant and that allowing the video to be broadcast for the public would damage Tyler Robinson’s right to a fair trial.

Court takes a break while judge reviews proposed evidence

State District Judge Tony Graf has placed the courtroom on a short recess while he reviews the proposed redactions to the recorded interview of Tyler Robinson’s roommate.

Graf says reviewing the proposals will allow him to get up to speed so he’s ready to make a ruling as efficiently as possible.

During Wednesday’s proceedings, Charlie Kirk’s parents were present with Kirk’s widow, Erika, sitting beside them in the front row of the gallery. Robinson’s parents were seated a few rows back.

Courtroom break is running longer than expected

State District Judge Tony Graf has typically had the court take 15-minute breaks. But this one is running longer than expected and has stretched past the half-hour mark.

The judge said he was going to use the time to review some proposed evidence: the recorded statements of Tyler Robinson’s former roommate and romantic partner, Lance Twiggs.

Whether Twiggs’ testimony should be allowed in court and whether it should be shown to the public have been contentious issues between the defence and prosecution.

Livestream makes it hard to see Tyler Robinson

The livestream of the courtroom hearing in the case of Charlie Kirk’s killing shows defendant Tyler Robinson from behind, making it hard to see his face unless he turns.

A decorum order issued by Judge Tony Graf requires a photographer and a videographer with the media pool to get images only when court is in session and Robinson is seated with his defence attorneys.

Cameras were at the front of the courtroom when the case began. But Graf moved them toward the back of the court following defence complaints that closeup shots could reveal what Robinson and his lawyers were saying.

Those closeups led to a story in one outlet that was based on a purported lip-reading analysis of Robinson’s conversations with his attorneys.

Robinson’s attorneys pushed unsuccessfully to ban cameras altogether. They argue that coverage of the trial is biasing potential jurors.

Court is back in session

State District Judge Tony Graf has thanked everyone for their patience, and says “sometimes it takes time to save time.”

He said he is going to address the arguments over whether a recorded interview of Tyler Robinson’s former roommate and romantic partner, Lance Twiggs, can be admitted as evidence.

Judge asks attorneys for a ‘roadmap’

State District Judge Tony Graf has reminded attorneys on both sides that the hearing is scheduled to end Friday. And he’s asking them to give the court a “roadmap” of their plans for the rest of the proceeding.

Deputy Utah County Attorney Chad Grunander says his office will call Utah State Bureau of Investigation Agent Brian Davis to testify Wednesday. If time allows, he says, they may also bring Utah Department of Public Safety Sergeant Jennifer Faumuina back to the stand this afternoon.

Grunander says Faumuina’s testimony will likely extend into Thursday, and then the prosecution’s presentation will be finished.

The defence team plans to call two remaining witnesses, both from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Day three of Tyler Robinson’s preliminary hearing begins

State District Judge Tony Graf is presiding.

DNA expert says it’s reliable science

Forensics expert Lawrence Quarino said law enforcement agencies use “extremely reliable” tests to determine the probability a person matches with DNA found at a crime scene.

Quarino, a professor and director of the forensic science program at Cedar Crest College in Pennsylvania, called DNA testing “the gold standard” of forensic science.

A lawyer for Tyler Robinson on Tuesday questioned the reliability of DNA tests authorities said linked him to the suspected murder weapon – a rifle found after Kirk was shot.

There are ways to challenge DNA evidence, Quarino noted. He said a defence attorney, for instance, could claim DNA material was transferred to a location by an intermediary who shook the hand of a suspect. But he said government labs that analyze DNA have strict quality controls and their science is sound.

Tyler Robinson’s parents arrive at the courthouse

Matt and Amber Robinson have attended every day of the hearing so far. They are usually seated a row or two away from the Kirk family in the courtroom gallery.

A woman brings a sign in support of the Kirk family

Sydney Young came from Alpine, Utah, to the courthouse with a handmade sign decorated with hearts and the words, “Prayers 4 the Kirks.” She also held a silver star-shaped balloon.

Young, who’s been watching the preliminary hearing off and on via livestream, said she wanted to show support for Kirk’s widow, Erika.

“I recently just lost my father, right after Kirk. He died of a heart attack, and I know from personal experience how horrible it is,” she said, fighting back tears.

Young said her message to Erika Kirk is this: “Erika, I’m so sorry for your loss, and I hope you know this action doesn’t represent all of Utah.”

A law officer told Young signs weren’t allowed on courthouse property, so she moved across the street.

Charlie Kirk’s parents have arrived at the courthouse

Robert and Kathryn Kirk have attended every day of the preliminary hearing so far.

Sometimes, however, they leave the courtroom to avoid hearing details about their son’s death.

People brought coloured wristbands to sneak into court, security director says

Court staff have came outside to speak to people lined up before proceedings resume and issued a warning about the rules of decorum.

Chris Palmer, the court’s director of security, says wristbands for public seating in court are now labelled because security discovered some people bought coloured wristbands from the dollar store to sneak in.

“It’s not worth being arrested for,” Palmer said.

Some travelled from afar for a chance to see the hearing

Nguyen Weeks traveled to Provo from her northern California home because she wanted to see Tyler Robinson’s preliminary hearing for herself.But she didn’t get one of the limited public seats on Monday or Tuesday, and ended up watching the livestream. For Wednesday’s hearing, she lined up at 2 a.m. — early enough to score the first spot in line.

“I’m interested in this case generally, thinking about how justice happens — or not — or what are the obstacles to that,” Weeks said.

The first two days included “some bombshells,” Weeks said, like the testimony from an investigator who said the person who provided doorbell camera footage to law enforcement believed there were multiple people in Tyler Robinson’s car. The investigator said a review of the video showed just one person. The video clip is one of several that have been shown in court.

“Before coming, I may have been a little biased and as more information comes out, I’m willing to open myself up to whatever,” Weeks said. “I’ve been listening to the prosecution saying they have loads of evidence. I’m looking forward to seeing it. I would say I’ve seen more defence evidence unroll, surprisingly.”

People are lining up in hopes of grabbing a seat in the courtroom

Journalists and members of the public have formed a line in front of the courthouse doors, waiting for the preliminary hearing to start at 1 p.m. local time. Some sit in lawn chairs and chat.

Windows on the fourth floor of the building, where the courtroom is located, remain covered by black sheeting to obstruct views.

Robinson’s defence disputed the idea that he was hostile to Kirk’s politics

Defence attorney Richard Novak sought to block prosecutors from introducing a statement describing the traditional Christian values of Turning Point USA.

“This doesn’t say anything about Mr. Robinson’s state of mind,” Novak said about the statement from Turning Point USA board member David Engelhardt. “I don’t think that this court should be deciding — based on the record before it — where, if at all, politics and religion intersect.”

The judge ruled that the Turning Point statement was relevant and would be “provisionally admitted” with a final decision at a later date.

Robinson’s roommate provided investigators with a DNA sample

FBI analyst Amanda Bakker said after Robinson’s roommate provided a DNA sample for comparison, she was able to rerun her tests and attribute all of the DNA to two people.

Investigators found the towel and suspected murder weapon — a bolt-action rifle with one spent round — in a wooded area near where Kirk was shot.

DNA on the towel matched to two people, Jennifer Faumuina with the State Bureau of Investigation testified. One was Robinson’s roommate, Lance Twiggs, and the other was very likely Robinson, she said.

Defence lawyer Michael Burt cast doubt

It’s a theme that’s likely to come up again during a weeklong preliminary hearing.

“She can’t match Mr. Robinson to the questioned samples,” Burt concluded.

Deputy Utah County Attorney Ryan McBride countered that the reliability of the DNA testing could be examined if the case goes to trial. He suggested the preliminary hearing was not the time to take up the matter.

“The point is there are explanations that are susceptible to different interpretations and arguments,” McBride said. “The court is going to determine if it meets the threshold of reliability at trial.”

DNA evidence from Charlie Kirk assassination disputed by defence

Lawyers for the man accused of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk are expected to keep questioning the reliability of DNA testing that prosecutors said links the defendant to the suspected murder weapon when a weeklong hearing continues Wednesday.

A member of Tyler Robinson’s defence team interrogated a DNA analyst from the FBI on Tuesday about the techniques she used to connect Robinson to a rifle found wrapped inside a towel at Utah Valley University, where Kirk was shot in September while speaking to a crowd.

Defence lawyer Michael Burt cast doubt on the analyst’s conclusions — a theme that’s likely to come up again during a weeklong preliminary hearing.